並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep66-%E5%90%B3%E6%B7%A1%E5%A6%82-%E9%97%95%E5%8F%88%E4%B8%8A%E6%85%A2%E9%A3%86%E8%82%A1%E5%8F%B0%E7%A9%8D%E9%9B%BB/id1536242998?i=1000504664202