並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E4%B8%96%E7%95%8C%E5%A4%9A%E7%BE%8E%E5%A5%BD-%E6%9D%8E%E4%BD%B3%E6%AD%A1%E8%B3%B4%E7%8F%AE%E5%A6%82-EYFTfdbG5nw/